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1 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 6:06:05am

Alembic?

Weird.

This attempt to rewrite history is also odd. The Nazi's used religion, religious concepts constantly, and Hitler claimed he was doing the work of God.

So, not really so atheist-y.

2 sagehen  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 6:10:52am

then it's convenient Pharyngula chose just this week to run a list of quotes proving Hitler and his deeds should be scored to Team Jesus:

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]


(atheists to acknowledge that Stalin was one of theirs).

3 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 6:44:09am

re: #2 sagehen

First, there is no "team atheist". Just as there is no "team non-astrology". Just people of all types who happen not to believe in God.

Atheists refusing to acknowledge that Stalin was an atheist is news to me.

Here's Richard Dawkins, for example, doing just that, amid an excellent evisceration of Papal hypocrisy (h/t Thanos):

What atheists rightly dispute is the idiotic notion that Stalin's atrocities were somehow a natural expression of atheism.

4 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 6:45:57am

re: #1 Obdicut

Alembic?

Weird.

This attempt to rewrite history is also odd. The Nazi's used religion, religious concepts constantly, and Hitler claimed he was doing the work of God.

So, not really so atheist-y.

Indeed. "Gott Mit Uns" would have to be a really weird choice of motto for an army of atheists.

5 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 7:50:06am

re: #3 Jimmah

First, there is no "team atheist". Just as there is no "team non-astrology". Just people of all types who happen not to believe in God.

Atheists refusing to acknowledge that Stalin was an atheist is news to me.

Here's Richard Dawkins, for example, doing just that, amid an excellent evisceration of Papal hypocrisy (h/t Thanos):

[Video]What atheists rightly dispute is the idiotic notion that Stalin's atrocities were somehow a natural expression of atheism.

Great speech. The high frequency range seems to be amplified and that makes it a little difficult on the ears. This video has better audio:

Very impressive crowd. You would be hard pressed to find one that large in the United States.

6 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 7:59:44am

re: #5 Gus 802

Better video too - cheers, Gus.

7 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:11:42am

ODESSA

As early as 1947, Simon Wiesenthal began to identify escape routes used by Nazis to escape from Germany. The main route he discovered was from the small Bavarian town of Memmingen to Innsbruck, Austria. From there, it was possible to cross into Italy over the Brenner pass. Wiesenthal later learned the Nazis referred to this as the "B-B" route, from Bremen in Germany to the Italian port of Bari. He also knew that the fugitives had little or no difficulty obtaining false papers and seemed to have enough money available in their new home to establish comfortable new lives. Wiesenthal concluded a secret organization with substantial resources had to be involved in helping fugitive Nazis. The seeds of that project were planted before World War II ended.

[...]

Some war criminals remained in Germany and took on new identities, managing to get themselves smuggled out of Germany and to freedom during the chaos at the end of hostilities. An underground network called "Die Spinne" (The Spider) supplied false papers and passports, safe houses, and contacts that could smuggle war criminals across the un-patrolled Swiss borders. Once into Switzerland, they moved on quickly to Italy, using what some called "The Monastery Route." Roman Catholic priests, especially Franciscans, helped Odessa move fugitives from one monastery to the next until they reached Rome. According to Wiesenthal, one Franciscan monastery, Via Sicilia in Rome, was virtually a transit station for Nazis, an arrangement made possible by a bishop from Graz named Alois Hudal. Wiesenthal speculates that the motive for most of the priests was what he viewed as a misguided notion of Christian charity. Once in Italy, the fugitives were out of danger, and many then dispersed around the globe.

8 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:12:45am

Alois Hudal

Alois Hudal (also known as Luigi Hudal; 31 May 1885 in Graz, Austro-Hungarian Empire – 13 May 1963 in Rome, Italy) was a Rome-based bishop of Austrian descent. He was for thirty years head of the small Austrian-German congregation of Santa Maria dell'Anima in Rome and until 1937, an influential representative of the Austrian Church. In his 1937 book The Foundations of National Socialism Hudal praised Adolf Hitler and some of his policies and indirectly attacked the policies of the Vatican. After World War II, an unrepentant Hudal became infamous for the "ratline" he helped to establish, allowing prominent Nazi German and other European former Axis officers and political leaders, among them war criminals, to escape Allied trials and denazification.

[...]

9 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:16:58am

yay, gus! How goes it?

10 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:17:41am

re: #9 iceweasel

yay, gus! How goes it?

Hi Ice. Same old, same old. Sent you an email.

11 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:18:54am

Hey! Just checked my ematl for the first time in like a week. Couldn't agree more. Will respond at length.

Making beef stew for dinner.

12 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:19:41am

'Vatican aided Eichmann's escape'
By JPOST.COM STAFF
03/14/2010 10:35

German campaigners demand disclosure of dossier on Nazi's flight to Argentina.

Campaigners in Germany are challenging the 50-year secrecy order that binds files on Adolf Eichmann’s flight from Germany after World War II, the Daily Mail reported on Sunday.

According to the dissenters, led by German journalist Gabriele Weber, the dossier may contain information that shows Eichmann’s post-war escape from the country was aided by the Vatican and by German officials.

In a court case against the German intelligence service, the BND, the campaigners are demanding the public disclosure of 4,500 pages of information concerning Eichmann. They reportedly say the documents will prove the high-ranking Nazi, often referred to as “the architect of the Holocaust,” did not escape independently.

Leipzig’s Federal Administrative Court in Leipzig is studying the campaigners’ request, as well as the documents themselves. The BND, meanwhile, was quoted by the Daily Mail as saying that “much of the information contained in the files was provided by an unnamed foreign intelligence service,” and should therefore remain secret for the sake of future cooperation between intelligence agencies.

The campaigners, however, are not easily subdued. “There is good reason to believe [Eichmann] received help from German, Italian and Vatican officials,” Weber’s lawyer told the UK paper. Eichmann’s son Ricardo also expressed support for the disclosure.

[...]

13 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:21:33am

re: #11 iceweasel

Hey! Just checked my ematl for the first time in like a week. Couldn't agree more. Will respond at length.

Making beef stew for dinner.

Yeah. Some folks demand that their ego be stroked even if they have to malign your point of view. So out of the blues come the question. Yes, yes. That proverbial "I'm only ask you a question that you have yet to answer."

14 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:23:36am

re: #13 Gus 802

Yeah. Some folks demand that their ego be stroked even if they have to malign your point of view. So out of the blues come the question. Yes, yes. That proverbial "I'm only ask you a question that you have yet to answer."

just asking questions! = 'just trying to derail another thread! And turn it into yet another episode of the longrunning Show About Me!'

histrionic attention whores.
have to say my tolerance for it is very low at the moment.

LOVE the video, just watched it again and cheered loudly. :)

15 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:32:39am

re: #14 iceweasel

just asking questions! = 'just trying to derail another thread! And turn it into yet another episode of the longrunning Show About Me!'

histrionic attention whores.
have to say my tolerance for it is very low at the moment.

LOVE the video, just watched it again and cheered loudly. :)

Save the rest for email. ;)

16 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:32:57am

From the National Secular Society:

Hitler's election poster uses the concordat of Pius XII

The present pope would probably prefer that the shocking-pink poster with Gothic lettering remains out of sight in its museum drawer. For Benedict is doing all he can to advance the canonisation of the Germanophile wartime pope, Pius XII. This poster, however, draws a clear connection between the Reichskonkordat, negotiated by Pius, and Hitler’s rise to power.

Adolf Hitler's election poster that used the concordat of Pius XII. See translation below.

The poster was printed for the Reichstag election of 12 November 1933, when voters were already being presented with a single list of candidates to be approved or rejected as a group: the “Hitler list”. The poster is titled “Why is a Catholic obliged to vote for the parliamentary list of Adolf Hitler?” It answers this question by enumerating the benefits to the Church of the concordat negotiated by Pius XII, and signed just months before.

Naturally, the poster doesn’t mention that the Reichskonkordat also contained a Secret Supplement providing for a future German mobilisation, in defiance of the Treaty of Versailles. The secret part of the concordat indicates that already in 1933 the Pope expected Germany to go to war against Russia. And a recently discovered letter shows that ten years later, when this indeed happened, Pius hoped for a German victory. It was a marriage of convenience: Pius got a favourable concordat and a German army to fight Communism, whilst Hitler got the “Catholic vote” to help bring him to power.

And it worked. The German voters had no idea that their Führer and their Pope were conspiring to send them off to war. In the November 1933 election 93% of the unspoiled ballots approved the Nazi decision to withdraw from the League of Nations and 92% endorsed the “Hitler list”. This election doomed the Reichstag to political insignificance. Now posted online for the first time is a clear photo and an English translation of Hitler’s fateful pink election poster.

17 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:34:50am

re: #15 Gus 802

Save the rest for email. ;)

yep! later today for sure. Think I'm going to take off now-- wanted to say hi. :) Just read MoDo's column and that's done me in-- even in a column ostensibly about O'Donnell, she just can't stop with the Obama bashing. Gah.

see you here later maybe! speak soon for sure. xoxo

fight the good fight!

18 Gus  Sun, Sep 19, 2010 8:36:57am

re: #17 iceweasel

yep! later today for sure. Think I'm going to take off now-- wanted to say hi. :) Just read MoDo's column and that's done me in-- even in a column ostensibly about O'Donnell, she just can't stop with the Obama bashing. Gah.

see you here later maybe! speak soon for sure. xoxo

fight the good fight!

Yeah. O'Donnell, the brain trust of the Tea Party and the new face of the newly re-minted, reactionary GOP.

Later Ice!


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